[WIP] Bally - Lost World

[tilowil]

Bonsoir,
 Très belle prise.  

La tresse n'est pas au bon endroit.
Je reprends la photo que je t'ai deja mis.

La tresse va au fond. Si le fond n'est pas à la masse tu n'aura pas le nombre de flash correct.
Apres il y a peut être un contact entre le fond et cette tresse ou tu as branché la tienne. A tester avec un multimetre.

A+.

[edit]
Concernant tes Flashs, j'ai retrouvé dans ma bibliothèque la description des Flashs MPU Bally.

Flash	Test
1	Test ROM U1 à U6
2	U7 (6810)
3	U8 (5101)
4	U10 (6821 PIA)
5	U11 (6821 PIA)
6	U11 (6821 PIA) ou U12 (555 Timer)
7	U10 (6821 PIA) ou +43 absent ou U14, mais souvent le 43v absent

Si le flash a lieu le test est ok , c'est le flash manquant qui indique le problème.

Bonne remise en route.

[Manu2]

Bonjour,

Déjà, ton flip est clairement bien conservé. Par contre, il a fait de l'exploitation, c'est une évidence.

Il faudra rajouter une pile. Elle est manquante et c'est une bonne chose, ça a évité qu'elle ne coule davantage. J'ai l'impression que c'est oxydé en bas à gauche de la cpu. La pile permettra de conserver la mémoire.

Les ponts de diode ont été déportés hors de la carte, pourquoi pas...

Le fil de masse est au bon endroit. Il va bien sur le fil du fronton relié de part et d'autre au carton métallique.

[Oggy]

Je vais essayer de brancher la tresse de masse sur le fond métallique du fronton, et je referai les tests.

@Tilo > ok pour les flash, mais U11 (6821 PIA) ca veut dire que je fais quoi ?

[tilowil]

Hello Oggy,
J'espère que ton U11 est monté sur support, mais d'après la bible Bally voici ce qui est dit pour les Flashs.

The MPU Diagnostic LED Flash Sequences Explained.

    1st Brief Flicker:
    If the LED briefly flickers on power-up, U6 (ROM), U9 (CPU), U11 (PIA), the reset components, and +5 volts DC are good (remember some Stern games also require the U2 and/or U5/U6 ROMs for the first flicker). If the LED locks on, one of these components (or some other supporting components such as the MPU's Q1, Q2, Q5, VR1, or C23, Q20 on the solenoid driver board) are bad (see above). Also the traces connecting these components together could be bad (battery corrosion!).

    On power-up, the U9 CPU chip requires +5 volts DC be applied before the reset line is allowed to swing from 0 to +4.8 volts. It also requires the presense of a two-phase, non-overlapping clock pulse. If these conditions are met, and if the U9 CPU chip itself is good, the LED on the MPU board briefly flickers.

    The brief flicker indicates the operation is proper. The MPU has gone out to memory and obtained the starting address of the self-test from memory. The flicker indicates that it then went to that address and started to execute the self-test program.

    The Valid Power Detectors circuit on the U9 CPU works with the +5 volts DC regulator Q20 on the solenoid driver board. This prevents the reset line from going high until +5 volts DC is proper at the U9 CPU chip. Q20 is supposed to go into regulation when +7.5 volts DC is applied to its input. This means that when the game is turned on, and a sufficient time (milliseconds) has passed so that C23 on the solenoid driver board has charged, Q20 switches into regulation. This supplies +5 volts DC to the MPU board.

    Q1 on the MPU board (in the valid power detector circuit) does not allow the CPU chip to turn on immediately. The zener diode VR1, in series with the base of Q1 delays application of the reset voltage until C23 charges. At this point, Q1 and Q5 on the MPU board go into conduction, and the reset line at the MPU is caused to go high. Only then is the U9 CPU chip "on".

    The importance of the Valid Power Detection circuit can be appreciated when the following fact is known; should the reset line be allowed to go high before the +5 volts is applied and proper, or should the +5 volt supply fail and go out of regulation, the U9 CPU chip can jump out of the program. The reason this happens is that the U9 CPU goes out to the program memory bank U1-U6 for instructions. The logic levels are wrong because the +5 volts is not proper. The MPU misinterprets the data, jumps out of the program, and executes this misinterpreted program! The U9 CPU is now like a train that has left the tracks, and it can end up anywhere. The difference is that a train will eventually stop. But the U9 CPU may continue as long as the clock circuit continues to run.

    If the U9 CPU jumps out of the program, it is said to be in "run away". While it is mis-interpreting the program, it invariably overwrites the Bookkeeping function in U8 and the scratch pad RAM. An indication of a "run away" would be false data in bookkeeping. Probable cause is a faulty Q20 or C23 (or both) on the solenoid driver boared, or a leaky zener diode VR1 on the MPU board.

    First Flash:
    No first flash means one of the game program ROMs U1 to U6 is bad. Could be a mis-jumpered board, or a bad ROM chip at U1 to U6.

    the U9 CPU chip next goes out to the program ROM's (read only memory) U1 to U6. It tests each chip in the bank, in accordance to how the MPU board is jumpered. When it finds the bank is correct, it flashes the LED for the first flash. A fault in the U1 to U6 ROM chips is indicated by the absense of the first flash.

    The U9 CPU tests each ROM chip's function like this: in a game with ROM chips U2 and U6 (typical), the CPU first goes to U2. It fetches the first byte in U2, and adds it to the second byte in U2. It will add to this sum the third byte in U2. This continues until all bytes in the chip have been added up. If the sum of all the bytes is "0000 0000", the U9 CPU proceeds to U6 and repeats this process. If U6 has a sum of "0000 0000", the U9 CPU causes the LED to flash the first time. Fault in either U2 or U6 is indicated by the absence of the first flash.

    The contents of each ROM chip have byte locations called checksums, reserved for this test routine. There is one checksum byte reserved in each 512 bytes of ROM memory. The game programmer at Bally must insert a btye with the proper value in each checksum byte location to force each 512 byte checksum to equal "0000 0000".

    During the life of an electronic game, if a ROM chip U1 to U6 fails by so much as a single bit, it will be detected during this CPU test. The CPU will not continue until the defective ROM chip is replaced.

    Second Flash:
    no second flash means U7 (6810) is bad.

    The U9 CPU chip goes out to the U7 RAM and erases the contents of the first byte (U7 is a 128 byte scratch pad memory). It then tries to read back the word "0000 0000" (indicating erased). If it can read it back, it adds "1" and continues. 256 tries later, it writes the word "1111 1111". If it can read it back, it has determined that the first byte in U7 is good. It repeats this process for each of the 128 bytes of RAM in U7, one at a time. If at the end of this 256 x 128 (=32,768) tests, each time the CPU writes, it can read the same word back, the CPU cause the LED to flash a second time.

    Note the pause between the first and second flashes. This is the CPU doing 32,768 tests to the RAM at U7 and repeats the process.

    Third Flash:
    no third flash means U8 (5101) is bad.

    The U9 CPU goes out to U8 (CMOS 5101 RAM) and makes a copy of the contents of the first half byte. It does this because U8 is battery supplied, non-volatile memory where the bookkeeping functions are stored. It then erases the contents of the first half byte, and tries to read back the word "0000 xxxx". If it can read it back, it adds "1" to the previous word (giving "0001 xxxx"). It continues to write and read until it reaches the word "1111 xxxx". When this is done successfully, the CPU restores the original contents to the first byte located in U8. It then makes a copy of the contents of the second byte, and repeats the process. It does this for the entire 256 bytes, one at a time. If at the end of the 256 x 16 (=4096) test, each time the CPU writes and reads the same word correctly, the CPU caused the LED to flash a third time.

    Fourth Flash:
    no fourth flash means U10 (6821 PIA) is bad.

    The U9 CPU chip now tests the first 6821 PIA chip. There are two of these chips on the MPU board, which are identical and interchangable. The test for both is the same.

    To determine if a PIA chip is good, the U9 CPU does the following:
        The CPU accesses, by means of input RS0, RS1, CS0, CS1 and CS2 each of the two full byte registers used to store the port initialization information. If does this, one register at a time. After it completes the first register, it repeats for the second. It goes through 256 tests similar to that used to check each byte in U7 (second flash). If each time the CPU writes a word into the register, it can read the same word back, it continues to test until completion.
        The CPU accesses, by means of input RS0, RS1, CS0, CS1 and CS2, each of two full byte registers used as data output registers when PA0 to PA7 and PB0 to PB7 are used as outputs. It does the same type of test on each register as described just above. Again if no faults are found, the test is continued until completion.
        The CPU then accesses, by means of input RS0, RS1, CS0, CS1 and CS2, the two ports CA2 and CB2. The port is initialized as an output. The port is then written into to see if it can store a "1" and then a "0".
    A total of 4 x 256 + 4 (=1028) test steps are required to test the PIA chip. However, there are internal buffer amplifiers used with the PB0 to PB7 output registers and CB2 port register which can not be tested by the CPU. Access is only to the register; if the buffer is open, it does not interfere with the registers ability to be written into and read from by the CPU. It is this uncertainity that reduces the accuracy of these test to 99.5%.

    Fifth Flash:
    no fifth flash means U11 (6821 PIA) is bad.

    Same test is performed on U11 as was performed on U10. See above.

    Sixth Flash*:
    no sixth flash means either PIA U11 (6821) is bad, or U12 (555) timer is bad.

    The U9 CPU chip monitors PIA2, port CA1 (U11). If transitions from high to low are detected, the CPU decides the Display Interrupt Generator is working. If U12, a 555 timer, or any associated circuit component fails, the CPU will not flash the LED the sixth time.

    * Note on Baby Pacman and Granny and the Gators, this flash step is skipped and not tested.

    Seventh Flash**:
    no seventh flash means PIA U10 (6821) is bad, or there is no +43 volts DC for the solenoids (power transformer fuse F4 is probably blown), or U14 is bad.

    The U9 CPU chip monitors PIA1 port CB1 (U10). If transistion from high to low are detected, the CPU decides that the zero crossing detector is working. If U14 fails and the CB1 line is stuck high or low, the test will also fail. The zero crossing detector circuit input is the +43 volts DC line that is used for the solenoids. If the fuse in that line (F4 on the power transformer module) is blown when the game is turned on, the CPU will not flash the LED the seventh time.

    ** Note on Baby Pacman and Granny and the Gators this flash is the final flash. These games only had six flashes instead of seven.

    Game Initialization.
    The U9 CPU chip now initializes the two PIA's U10 and U11, assigning to each port its role as either an input or an output, as required. It then clears out U7 (6810 RAM). Now the CPU takes a picture of the settings of fixed switches S1 to S32 on the MPU board. It stores this "picture" in memory in chip U7. The CPU next jumps to a routine which turns on the "Game Over" feature light, lights the "Ball in Play" light, and the "Credit Indicator" light if there are credits stored in memory. It resets the drop targets and activates the saucer kickers or any kicker associated with a playfield device that can trap the ball and keep it out of the outhole. It then energizes the coin lockout solenoid to allow the game to accept coins (unless the credit maximum was met). Playfield and backbox feature lights associated with and appropriate to animation effects are turned on. With the game tested and initialized, the CPU now divides its time between monitoring momentary switches for closure (coin switch, credit button) and updating displays (lamps and score registers).

    Problems/Solutions with the Seventh Flash.
    If fuse F4 is blown on the solenoid board, the seventh flash will not occur. But what if there is a problem on the playfield which is forcing this fuse to blow (stopping the final LED flash on the MPU board, hence stopping your MPU diagnostics)?

    The easiest way to deal with this is to remove the solenoid connectors from the solenoid driver board to the playfield. These connectors are on the left side of the solenoid driver board, and the one connector at the bottom right of the board too. This should allow the F4 fuse to be replaced, and the completion of the MPU booting process.

    To help find the playfield coil that is causing the F4 fuse to blow, replace the connectors one at a time on the solenoid driver board (with the game off), and reboot the game. This will help issolate the bad coil.

    Another thing to try: remove the under-the-playfield coil fuse, and replace fuse F4. If F4 does not blow, then one of the coils under the playfield is somehow shorted or staying energized (and blowing the solenoid driver F4 fuse). If fuse F4 still blows, there is either a problem with the backbox knocker, or the cabinet coin door lockout coil, the solenoid bridge rectifier (on the rectifier board), or the rectifier board's varister.

    Also try removing connectors J1 and J3 from the rectifier board (this moves the solenoid power back a step further, not allowing it to get any further than the rectifier board). Replace fuse F4 on the solenoid driver board, and turn the game on. If the fuse still blows, the solenoid bridge rectifier (on the rectifier board) or the rectifier board's varister is probably at fault.

    If it is a coil under the playfield, check the coils to see which one energizes when the game is powered on. Or disconnect a wire on each solenoid, and re-attach each wire, one at a time, until the fuse blows. At this point it could be the coil, coil diode, or coil driver transistor at fault.

    Still No Seventh Flash - Other Things to Check.
    First check TP3 and make sure there is 21 volts DC (of course this assumes fuse F4 is not blown on the solenoid board). If there is still no seventh flash, here are some other things to check. Remember all the components mentioned below are in the battery corrosion area.
        Check resistor R17 (150k). If this resistor goes open, or is not making good contact the circuit board, there will be no 7th flash. This resistor commonly fails.
        Check resistor R16 (2k).
        Check resistor R18 (1.5 meg).
        Check diodes CR52 and CR49 (1N4148 or 1N914).
    If there is still no seventh flash, the last thing to check is chip U14 (4572).

    MPU Boots Fine, but after Turning Off and Immediately back On, The MPU board is Locked.
    Game is turned on and works fine. Then the game is turned off, and within a few minutes, turned back on. But the MPU board's LED is locked on, and will not (flicker) boot. The reset section of the MPU board has been rebuilt, as described in this document.

    The first thing to suspect is MPU battery corrosion in the reset circuit. Inspect the board for any damage due to corrosion. The problem may be the reset line stays high from the battery power. When the battery is discharged enough, the game will restart. This can happen from the two 8.2k resistors (R1, R3) at the bottom of the MPU board. Other resistors in the reset section should be checked too (R2, R112, R120, R140, R139, R138, R140, R12, R11).

    Seven Flashes Constantly Repeats.
    The MPU boots and gets to the 7th flash, then start all over and repeats the seven flashes, then starts all over and does it over and over. This can happen from a bad 6810 RAM at U7. Or possibly a bad socket at U7.

[Manu2]

Attention, il y a un bref clignotement au début, suivi des 7 flashes. Il ne faut pas confondre. Si c'est bien un clignotement bref + 4 flashes, et si les composants sont sur support, tu peux essayer d'intervertir les 2 6820, c'est-à-dire U11 et U10, pour voir si ça change le nombre de flashes. Auquel cas, tu aurais un 6820 HS.

Tu peux tenter de mettre ta tresse de masse au mauvais endroit, mais je t'assure que ça ne changera rien. 

Et finalement, acide ou pas sur la carte ?

[Oggy]

Alors, j'ai testé en modifiant la tresse de masse > pas de changement

Par contre cet après midi, la LED ne s'allume plus et plus de bourdonnement dans le HP 

J'ai repris les tensions et vérifier les branchement des cartes > RAS

Quelques petits écarts avec les résultats attendus :

carte d'alim (Power Transformer Module)

    TP1 = +5.4 (AS2518-18, lampes) > 5,33
    TP2 = +230 vdc (les afficheurs) > 222
    TP3 = +11.9 vdc (+5 régulé) > 13,50
    TP4 = 7.3 vac (illumination générale) > 6,3
    TP5 = +43 vdc (bobine) > 44,4
    GND = masse


carte CPU (MPU Board)

    TP1 = +5 vdc > 5,1
    TP2 = +11.9 vdc > 13,30
    TP3 = +21.5 vdc (vient du +43 vdc des bobines) > 22,40
    TP4 = masse
    TP5 = +5 vdc > 5,10


carte driver des bobines (Solenoid Driver/Voltage Regulator board)

    TP1 = +5 vdc > 5,10
    TP2 = +190 vdc > 190
    TP3 = +5 vdc > 5,10
    TP4 = +230 vdc > 244
    TP5 = +11.9 vdc > 13,30

Une photo pour voir l'état de la CPU qui me parait pas très oxydé



Donc 2 soucis :
- La carte CPU qui ne donne plus signe de vie !

- Une extinction sur 3, le flipper fait sauter les plombs ! (et que à l'extinction)

Si vous avez des idées ?

[Manu2]

Ta carte est clairement oxydée. Il faudrait la passer au vinaigre. Après, si dépannage il y a sur la carte (et il y en aura sûrement), je ne saurai t'aider plus.

[Oggy]

Alors on démonte la CPU

Nettoyage au vinaigre + eau chaude avec un pinceau dur

Avant



On refait la masse du CPU



On test





  Bon, la joie fut de courte durée. La CPU passe tous les tests.
J'arrive avec le bouton test de la porte à lancer le test 1 (test des lampes du fronton)

et puis..... plus RIEN

Impossible de redémarrer une seconde fois

J'ai fait le fainéant et j'ai nettoyé au vinaigre seulement le bas de la CPU.

Demain je démonte TOUTES les cartes et je nettoie tout au vinaigre + bombe contact sur les puces et fiches

@Manu2 > tu sais à quoi sert l'interrupteur en haut de la CPU ? (un reset peut être ?)

[Manu2]

L'interrupteur sert à réinitialiser les stats et les paramétrages.

Les autres cartes, ça sert à rien de les passer au vinaigre.

Les connecteurs non plus, à partir du moment où tu as les bonnes tensions. Si tu as du vert de gris sur les pinoches, il faut les changer, car ça remonte dans les fils et la bombe contact n'y fera pas grand chose.

Ta cpu est en panne, et il reste sûrement de l'oxydation sous les composants. Quand tu dis que ta cpu ne démarre pas, elle fait le même nombre de flash qu'avant ?

[Oggy]

Au démarrage 3 cas aléatoires :

- La LED reste allumée fixe
- La LED scintille une fois et plus rien
- La LED s'allume et clignote 4 fois

et à chaque fois il y a un gros bourdonnement dans le HP et la bobine du slingshot gauche s'active (et chauffe si j'éteins pas)

[Oggy]

Bon, rien n'y fait.

Quelqu'un sait ou je peux acheter une MPU AS2517-35 ?

[Manu2]

Bon, rien n'y fait.

Quelqu'un sait ou je peux acheter une MPU AS2517-35 ?

Ca se dépanne...

Si tu envoies ta carte à dépanner, je te conseille d'envoyer aussi la carte sons, probablement en panne, elle aussi.

Je te déconseille d'acheter d'occasion, si tu ne connais pas le vendeur. En neuf, tu as la NBII (je n'ai pas de lien), et la Alltek : http://wedmc.pypug.servertrust.com/product-p/alltek-mpu.htm

Mais les prix piquent !

Pour ta bobine de slingshot, c'est sûrement un transistor à changer sur la driver. Tu peux désouder la bobine en attendant.

[spectroman]

Au bgs, il y a un vendeur qui s'appelle Fred. Il vend des cartes d'occasion a 80€.
@Manu2: il est sur flipjuke tu n'as pas son pseudo?

[Little_Rabbit]

Salut,

Au bgs, il y a un vendeur qui s'appelle Fred. Il vend des cartes d'occasion a 80€.
@Manu2: il est sur flipjuke tu n'as pas son pseudo?

Dans le sud, il y a un type qui s'appelle Fred. Il a un petit tas de cartes CPU Bally qu'il répare.
@spectroman: il est sur Gamoo tu n'as pas son pseudo?



    

A+

PS : désolé Oggy, c'était juste une private joke entre specto et moi

[Oggy]

Salut,

Dans le sud, il y a un type qui s'appelle Fred. Il a un petit tas de cartes CPU Bally qu'il répare.
@spectroman: il est sur Gamoo tu n'as pas son pseudo?



    

A+

PS : désolé Oggy, c'était juste une private joke entre specto et moi

Pas de soucis, j'ai eu Fred au tel hier, il m'a confirmé que les cartes Bally, même réparée, c'était de la mer**

Je souhaite plutot partir sur une carte de remplacement, mais c'est vrai que les prix piquent les fesses 

J'ai demandé à Juju49 le nom du gars qui en vends d'occase (à priori il sera au Freeplay) > j'attend sa réponse

@Manu2 : je prendrai une CPU neuve si jamais le "Fred" du Freeplay ne peut pas m'en fournir une autre

@Spetcro et Manu2 : je vais m'attaquer au remplacement des petits connecteurs qu'on trouve dans les fiches rouges. Vous pouvez me dire leur nom/taille et où je peux en trouver ? Je suppose qu'il faut une pince adaptée pour faire le travail ?

Merci

[Manu2]

Je pense qu'il s'agit de Frederic Collet (pseudo Fredc sur flipjuke): quelqu'un de fiable !

Sinon, Oggy, je t'ai envoyé un lien par mp ce midi, pour un dépanneur sérieux. Fredc peut aussi te dépanner la carte. Perso, je n'en achéterai pas une autre.

Pour tes connecteurs, je crois pas de 0.156, à vérifier. Il faut que je retrouve les liens...

Edit : et si tu es équipé, et si Pet passe par là, et s'il a du temps (ça fait beaucoup de si !), il pourra peut-être te guider.